THE HITS Q&A: WASSERMAN MUSIC'S KEVIN SHIVERS

The year's first titanic shift in the music agency space came in early January, when WME hip-hop division co-heads Kevin Shivers and James Rubin, plus partner Cristina Baxter, exited to embark on new roles with Wasserman Music.

In a move negotiated by Granderson Des Rochers' Damien Granderson, Shivers and Rubin joined Wasserman's Executive Leadership Team as part of the group's biggest expansion since the 2021 launch of the agency.

Shivers, who started at WME in 2008, brings with him such stars as Tyler, the Creator, Lil Baby and Kali Uchis. The arrival of Shivers, Rubin and Baxter, in tandem with the roster of Brent Smith (Kendrick Lamar, SZA, Drake, Future), instantly makes Wasserman an even more formidable force in the Black-music space.

His expertise will also be at play throughout the Wasserman ecosystem, led by President Lee Anderson, who said, “It’s gratifying to now refer to some of our toughest competition as our newest teammates and partners.”

Shivers finally gave in to HITS’ relentless badgering and agreed to be interrogated about his new role at Wasserman, hip-hop’s emergence in the live space and what lies ahead this year.

What prompted your move to Wasserman? What were you looking for in a new role?

I wanted someplace where I could truly grow. I love to champion and mentor people. Wasserman is a great upstart company and Lee is an amazing leader. I can learn a lot from him. He wants people that can come in, help him and take things off his plate, which was perfect for me. I'm not scared of change or trying something different. I had 17 wonderful years at WME. Lucy [Dickins] and Kirk [Sommer] are great leaders too, and there's a lot of amazing people that work there, but it was time for something different.

I got the chance to come into Wasserman as an EVP and managing executive, and Lee has given me a lot of responsibility. I always think about the clients first and how best to super-service them. The support that I'm getting from Wasserman on a personal level helps me to be better for my clients.

The beauty of what Casey [Wasserman] has built is that we have film and TV too. The majority of music acts just want to play shows, but I've also been blessed to represent multi-hyphenates that want do more, and we can hyper-focus on them in this environment.

The combination of your roster and Brent Smith’s has turned Wasserman into a real force in hip-hop.

Brent has one of the greatest rosters in the business, no matter what genre, but my partner James Rubin is also probably the best international agent. Combined, we represent a lot of the people that turn heads in culture. We are the first calls for festival buyers and even for brand buyers. It's pretty incredible that we're all under one roof. The wealth of information and knowledge that we share is pretty vast.

Why do you think hip-hop wasn’t taken as seriously in the live space for so long?

It's just undeniable. When you go out in the world, anywhere you look, anywhere you turn, hip-hop music is playing. Hip-hop is culture. There are superstars in hip-hop, and people want to see the people that they love. I also think the music transcends beyond hip-hop. It goes into pop. It goes into country.

The Kendrick Lamar and SZA tour just blew out in Europe. That speaks pretty highly of the health of the genre in the live space.

You’ve got two amazing superstar artists at their prime. They came together to really deliver something special to the fans, and people really want to see that show. I haven't seen the counts, but I know that it's doing crazy business all across the world.

Tyler has a big year on the road ahead of him. Tell us about his evolution as a touring act.

I'm amazed by him every time I see him. I met him in 2012 when he was in Odd Future and he had a concept for a carnival. I went to the first show of his tour in Minneapolis and I was blown away by his attention to detail. CHROMAKOPIA is a monster and "Sticky" is a bona fide hit. I couldn't feel more lucky to just be in his orbit. Beyond the six nights in L.A. and New York, he's now a global superstar. We did multiples in London, Glasgow, Brisbane and Melbourne.

He did it brick by brick. It's about staying conservative and always leaving more on the table. You go from 500-cap venues to 1,500, to 5,000, to ballrooms, and then peppering in arenas, and then multiple arenas. He let his fans grow with him, but what I saw at the first show was another generation. I got so many calls from people my age whose young kids wanted to see Tyler when he came to L.A. He has a crazy cult following.

Will this be the biggest tour he's ever done?

Oh, it is already is the biggest tour he's ever done.

You mentioned the Camp Flog Gnaw festival. I'm sure a lot of artists would love to have their own event like this, but not only did Tyler conceptualize this, he was a key player in actually making it happen.

Correct. I mean, it's all him. From the concept to the look to the feel to the lineup, it’s all his brainchild. I get a lot of new artists in my office who want to replicate that, but I always tell them, you need a concept. You need a vision. You need something unique. Tyler does Flog Gnaw at Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, which is a very difficult market, but it’s unique. It’s literally a carnival with rides. At night, the lights and the setting are breathtaking.

What else are you looking forward to this year?

You’ll see something fun coming from Kali Uchis this year. She’ll surprise us with what she does on stage. I’ve been with Kali since 2014. Lil Baby put out a really, really solid record and he's gonna hit the road this summer. Leon Thomas, who I just signed with James Rubin, is a career artist. You’re going to see him blossom and shine for many years to come.

Overall, what are some opportunities for real growth in the touring business, and what are some stumbling blocks at the moment?

There's a lot of conversation around Africa and I love that, because music is a universal thing and we should try to get it to as many people as possible. We’re trying to figure out how to tour sustainably there, and I like that artists are thinking more and more about playing where their fans are.

I love that amazing jobs in music are becoming accessible to more and more people, but I’d like to see that diversity go even deeper. We still have a lot of work to do, but people seem to be more aware that there are other jobs than being a doctor or a lawyer.

In terms of stumbling blocks, I love social media and streaming and what they can do for artists, but we need more artist development. Sometimes artists get a little bit of buzz and go on the road without really developing a show, and that can be hard. I saw a stat that artists make 70% of their money on the road, so you have to keep going back and playing bigger rooms and learning how to put on bigger and better shows.

Unfortunately, weather is going to be a major problem as we go on. It really freaks me out. As we’re planning summer shows that are outdoors, I don’t really want my artist playing in places where it’s really, really hot outside in July and August. Those stages can be 120 degrees.

You answered a questionnaire for us last year where you said that the show or the tour you most would have wanted to see was Marvin Gaye on Sexual Healing. Any particular reason why?

I've been lucky to have seen a lot of the greats, but I never saw Marvin Gaye. I love him like I love Stevie Wonder. It would have been amazing to see the Sexual Healing tour in Los Angeles. Marvin played the Greek. Pretty crazy, right?