Once upon a time, women ran Nashville. Sounds like a fairytale, but BMI’s Frances Preston, Sony Tree’s topper Donna Hilley, CMA CEO Jo Walker-Meador, ASCAP chief Connie Bradley, Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame founder Maggie Cavender, SESAC’s Nashville originator Dianne Petty, Recording Academy chapter then national leader Nancy Shapiro, publisher and Nashville Music Association founder Dale Franklin, the Bluebird Cafe’s longtime owner Amy Kurland and manager-agent Louise Scruggs were once shaping the fate of country music. Most of the names are on the verge of being forgotten in the rush-rush of the new, modern music business.

There are those who’d argue Nashville was more about individuals, characters, creativity. The facts show country music was a fertile place for female artists in the ’80s, ’90s and even 2000s, as evidenced by Dolly, Reba, Wynonna, Shania, Faith, Patty, Trisha, Martina, Tanya, Miranda, Carrie and other single-named stars.

For all the conversation about breaking glass ceilings, creating opportunities and recognizing what women fans might want, it has been a difficult time for female artists, as well as people of color, trying to break through. To that end, HITS asked women across the industry to share their candid thoughts on a host of topics and get real about where women are, what needs to happen and how to create a shift that could matter.

For generously sharing their time amid incredibly busy schedules, we’re grateful to Academy of Country Music Chair and Essential Broadcast Media founder Ebie McFarland, Broken Bow EVP, Recorded Music JoJamie Hahr, Neon Coast founder Martha Earls, Sony Music Nashville SVP Marketing Jen Way, Universal Music Group Nashville’s EVP of A&R Chelsea Blythe and EVP of Marketing Lori Christian and Warner Nashville’s SVP, Radio Kristen Williams for their diverse insight and real passion for an industry trying to grow in opportunity for all.

How has Nashville changed during your career for a woman working in the music industry?

JoJamie Hahr: I’m beyond blessed to work for Jon Loba, a boss who supports me no matter what. Jon has always celebrated the things that make me me. He encourages women, and men alike, to work hard and show up in the room just as you are, and supports us in our unique gifts. That said, that wasn’t always the case for me in my early years as a young woman in the business. I was told what I should and shouldn’t wear and was coached on what color font to use in emails. Quite ridiculous in a world where the only thing that should matter is how hard you work and how kind you are to others.

Kristen Williams: I started in this business at the age of 23, over 20 years ago. Nashville was a much smaller town then, literally and figuratively. And frankly, it wasn’t all that friendly to women. There were fewer of us, and we had to work twice as hard to be recognized.

At 27, I was having babies while my counter-parts were “bro-ing out” and hitting the bars. Navigating the industry was more difficult simply because I was misunderstood. In the last five years. there has been a dramatic shift in the number of women leaders in Nashville. That rise has had a profound impact on our industry. Young women benefit from seeing what I wasn’t able to—strong women in roles advocating for change. They are paving the way for the younger generation.

Martha Earls: When I began my career in the music industry close to 25 years ago, women were the leaders and faces of many of the corporate companies. You had Connie Bradley at ASCAP, Donna Hilley at Sony/ATV, Francis Preston at BMI, Susan Nadler and Evelyn Shriver at Asylum, Karen Conrad at BMG. About 15 years ago, maybe a little more, something weird happened—no more women were heading these companies. It happened quietly. The women were just replaced by white men. I was still working in the corporate structure. It became pretty apparent to me just looking around town, there was no opportunity for me to rise much further at one of these companies. But I did notice what many really smart women [and minorities and LGBTQ people] did is leave that system and start their own companies. So, I did too.

Five years ago, things started to change again. In 2016, a year after I started my own management company, my client Kane Brown started to explode. I distinctly remember being referred to as “one of the better female managers in town” by a label executive I needed on my side. I remember being steered by the same executive to find an established male manager to cut my business in half with, because I had “gotten my client to that level.” It was really diminishing and made me doubt myself and my abilities, even though we were having great and revolutionary success.

But then something happened—the #MeToo movement. Women began telling stories of egregious behavior they had been subject to, and also the microaggressions that corroded their confidence. By talking about the issues, hearing about the issues, addressing the issues, I felt empowered and confident to not back down and to grow my company.

Now, in the past year, we have one woman running a record label in Nashville, Cindy Mabe, and one co-head, Cris Lacy. We’re moving in the right direction. Culturally we have Taylor Swift and the Barbie movie and Beyoncé, women who are bosses in their own rights on their own terms. It’s refreshing and exciting, but also, we can never let our guard down.

Why do you think women still struggle with radio? Streaming? Surely it’s not because women don’t want to listen to women.

ME: I believe radio listeners have been forced to listen to males for so many years that subconsciously, listeners feel that’s what they’re supposed to hear. Now it’s translated into streaming too. We’ve driven people—not just women—who want female voices to other formats.

I have two young daughters; they only ask Alexa to play female artists. They love Taylor, Olivia, Halsey and Adele, but in country, they really only have Kelsea and Lainey. So they’ve drifted from the country format to pop. We have to expose more female music, then cultural/mental programming will shift; but deprogramming takes time and patience, something our business isn’t known for.

Jen Way: It’s crazy, over the last two years, the audience and chart share for female voices has continued to decline; but radio’s profitability is predicated on their need to program what is familiar or popular. So, why would they deviate? It’s similar to an algorithm in that they wouldn’t want to serve up anything that may cause you to “click away.”

It makes cultivating and promoting female voices, and promoting diverse music, that much more important. Music defines culture, but gatekeepers—the new ones being algorithms—breed a monoculture of sameness. So, we as marketers have to be exceptionally creative in how we find an audience, then foster discovery and community.

What needs to shift for women to have a shot at radio? Selling tickets?

JW: Throughout history, women have been held to a higher standard, and this is no different. If the algorithm or gatekeeper can’t be reprogrammed, then to have a shot at radio success a female artist must bring with them not only an undeniable talent, but also a level of fandom and digital activity that would be foolish to ignore. Megan Moroney is a great example—she’s a brilliant songwriter with a unique and compelling voice, and her community grows more engaged daily. They show up in a big way for all of it—the shows, the songs, the fashion. She’s defining her own subculture. Radio can’t deny that.

Ebie McFarland: Psychology. What people believe becomes the predominant truth—whether it’s true or not—and it affects their behavior. So if songwriters, managers, labels, agents, etc., all believe it’s harder, more expensive or “insert reason” to work with a female over a male, they’re less apt to take that road. They bet on the more likely writer or artist before looking at those lanes that are wide open for exploration and success with the same investment.

We should prioritize stories as much as stats when setting artists up at Country radio. Country fans care about connection, family, friends and their community. That matters to them. Radio is an extension of our industry and these communities, so by considering and using who these artists are, their path to get here, it’s creating a deeper bond by providing listeners relationships that are meaningful.

Two (or three) creative ways you’ve worked around the obvious—for the win?

Lori Christian: The War and Treaty are breaking through one performance at a time. For the last year, we have been finding every opportunity for partners and fans to see them live, including globally. The way their music, message and incredible vocals make people feel, they continue to connect with fans and open doors.

We have looked at every opportunity for them, including a Bud Light commercial that played throughout the entire NFL season and features their cover of Etta James’ “A Sunday Kind of Love.” All of this culminated in their multiple Grammy nominations, including the all-genre Best New Artist. With new music coming this year, I can’t be more inspired and excited to see them continue to bless the world with their talents.

EM: By finding champions in varying verticals [print, TV, trade] who connect with the artist and their music, which enables real conversation. We used to do it in album setup; however, now it seems to happen more organically when you bring the outlet into the studio, tour or writers room. Exposure for the sake of exposure is also moot. Have a reason, a sense of urgency, an interesting idea when you’re going out and make it count, whether it’s media or an awards show pitch or appearance.

At the Academy of Country Music, we are the only trade organization with multiple new- artist categories and an artist-songwriter of the year category, which provides more entry points for women to be recognized by peers/industry, which is still a goal as artist teams are building and evolving careers. Look at Ashley McBryde’s visibility in these spaces.

What advantage does being a woman give you?

Chelsea Blythe: I think we’re very intuitive and in touch with what women listeners are living. Our perspective is more in line with how women feel about their lives and the world around them. It’s not just love or guys or something; it’s everything. To me, women hear women and understand the things they’re looking to hear.

KW: Some may disagree, but let’s be real—women are generally more empathic and nurturing by nature. I provide a safe environment for my team, where they know it’s okay to be honest, to be vulnerable. I listen intently to their concerns. We’ve got the intellect and ingenuity and we have empathy. That combo makes women absolutely unstoppable.

What do you see as the future for country music?

LC: I’ve been in town 18 years and seen a real shift to more women in executive roles. Through interviews I’ve done over the last year as we’ve expanded our teams, it’s obvious young women are seeing the changes and recognizing opportunities for themselves in Nashville and the music industry here. Our company has shifted and expanded as streaming, marketing, new business development, international and creative teams continue to grow as new generations find different avenues to discover music. All that means the genre will grow—and deliver rare, real, unapologetic storytelling from a wide variety of voices.

JW: Go to a Kane Brown show and look at his audience. You’ll see the future of country music. It’s diverse and beautiful, both the show and the audience, filled with every gender, race, age, political affiliation and more. There is something for everyone in country music, and the future will continue to expand if we continue to embrace and amplify unconventionality and diversity as much as universality. There’s clearly a desire for female voices, and as younger consumers are gender-fluid listeners, we will see that shift country—and more females will break through.

What do you see as the future for females in country music?

KW: Some of the biggest artists in the world are women. We need more of them in country. Women are connecting with people. We see it every day with Ashley McBryde and Gabby Barrett. Lainey Wilson had a big breakthrough year. We need to break through more.

ME: Wide open as long as they stay true to themselves—and release music and share on social media exactly who they are and do it for the fans. Social media needs to be used to show who an artist is, not for likes. Likes don’t make careers.

CB: I watched in hip-hop as women rappers were becoming a thing. I remember when those labels were reluctant to sign women. Now look at Latto, Megan Thee Stallion, Nicki Minaj and Cardi B. Country can experience the same revolution with their female artists—just look at what Lainey Wilson’s doing.

If you could change one thing about our business, what would it be?

EM: Investment in artist development. We are feeling its deterioration, and the industry is suffering because of it.

CB: I wish it felt like women were heard as something that needs to be played. Recognizing the power of women’s voices, lives, experience is part of what drew me to Nashville. When you hear Dolly Parton, Reba, Shania, Trisha Yearwood, Patty Loveless or Carrie Underwood, man or woman, how can you not listen? Or be enriched? I don’t have the answers, but I’d love to be part of making country music a place where everyone’s hearing their life on the radio.