RUMOR MILL
Monday, July 7, 2014
DUNGAN DISHES
Interviewed by Holly Gleason
| Mike Dungan likes to have fun. You can hear it in his voice, you can see it on his Facebook page. But really, the former Pop promotion and marketing music executive, who’s logged—get ready—almost a quarter century in Nashville, thinks it’s about coloring outside the lines. Whether it was recognizing the potential of Hootie & the Blowfish’s Darius Rucker, taking sensitive rocker Keith Urban to unprecedented heights or knowing a vocal group that had faltered on two different labels could emerge as Little Big Town has, the UMG Nashville Chairman/CEO is game to try anything he believes in—even if it means running down his passions with HITS’ Holly Gleason |
You’ve had quite a journey, and now you’ve come full circle. I came to Nashville in 1990 to work at Arista Nashville. I’d worked with both LaFace and Arista Nashville out of Minneapolis, and Tim DuBois brought me to town. In 2000, I went to Capitol—and [Arista Nashville] made it difficult on me. I’d show up every day by myself and chain smoke in a non-smoking building while they made me wait out my contract. And then, the Universal move. Lucian [Grainge] had been courting me for a few months, and it was very emotional. I didn’t want to leave the artists and staff at Capitol; the family I loved and felt like I’d built. But I also knew what Lucian was creating. In the end, though, you got everybody back! It was kinda like The Brady Bunch after the merge. Capitol had 36 employees; Universal had 51. We ended up with 78 in the end. There was some redundancy, but not much. And then there were the artists. The obvious thing is, the Capitol roster was solid. It was laden with hitmakers that we’d signed and developed over 10 years, and they were all in places where they were poised to go to the next level. And the Universal roster? From a distance, you make opinions about artists. I came in the door, and in a lot of cases, found out I was wrong. Universal had a strong roster that maybe was underperforming. What does that mean? People [at Universal] looked at smaller success as success. I don’t wanna be gold but platinum; not platinum but double platinum. It’s not what you will, but what you can—and I wanted to build a culture where people believed they could win in bigger ways. What was the difference? Luke Lewis [Dungan’s predecessor] very much said [to this acts], "Go make the record in your heart, and leave it to us." That’s one way to do it. But I don’t think artists always have that good a sense of the marketplace. To me, all you can do is lay all the landmines out before them, then let them make an informed decision on what they want to do based on the marketplace. How did that play out in shifting perception? When you get good, you have to get even better! Staying ahead of the curve? How you do know? You don’t, but you try—and you try to find excellence wherever it is. If Randy Travis walked in, I’d sign him. But what would be do? I don’t know; that’s the fun of it. Look, there’s always room to play it cheap, appeal to the masses, and be successful. It’s never been about good or bad; it’s really about what works in the marketplace. It’s tough to resist signing those guys, but you can also pick your shots. Like Eric Church. Well, Eric is a tremendous songwriter, and you knew that, no matter what. But he’s also a student of the marketplace—he knows where his audience is. |
But he was challenging to the conventional wisdom and subject matter. I didn’t always get what he and John Peets were doing, especially on the touring side. But they went out and got 13 dates on a Bob Seger tour. Who does that? They went out and played the rock clubs, going on at 10 and 11 o’clock at night in the middle of the week—and were frustrated when country radio wouldn’t come see ’em. But they knew that was where their people were. And then there was "Homeboy." Yeah, that’s very much the rural-white-kid story. Don’t ever discount the impact of the first Marshall Mathers/Slim Shady record on rural America. I was talking to a writer from The New York Times about that. Eric has a very good vision of what’s going on out there. And there’s the blurring of genres. Younger people don’t care what you call it. There was a time when it was like you had to choose your format. This generation really doesn’t give a shit about any of it. They’ve been marketed to since they came out of the womb, and they hate that stuff. It gives me so much hope for America and the future. There’s room to like Eminen and to like Eric Church. And they know what they don’t like too. My kids don’t give a shit about what we call it, they know if they think it’s good. They love the hell out of David Nail, and can’t stand Florida Georgia Line at all. Well, there are those who’d argue Luke Bryan started all that. Luke’s a very different animal than just that. He’s very much about entertaining people. So if this Bro Country thing falls apart, I’m not too worried. All the guys coming along now, they’re doing what Luke was doing six years ago. His interests are pretty broad, and he has a good sense of what a hit is. He doesn’t like standing in the same spot. Where’s he going? We don’t know, but we trust him. It seems like the Chris Stapleton song "Drink a Beer" was an attempt to add some depth. Well, we knew we had this brilliant song on the record, and we thought you should throw that curveball right then. That was very gratifying for me personally. It proves people do appreciate a well-written song that’s not just party down, backbeat-driven stuff. We know what works on radio, and what sells records, and it just felt like it was time. Timing is everything. It let you cross Lady Antebellum when "Country acts" save Taylor weren’t really working. They’re pretty Pop to begin with. You listen to their stuff, and it’s not that far from Hot AC and Top 40. The trick is to let the music do the deciding, because those who aim for it are setting themselves up for disaster. And it’s been quite a while since we tried to cross a Lady A single over, ’cause we didn’t feel we had the goods for that genre. We want to take songs where they’re the strongest fit possible. |
| At the same time, you’re standing strong with Kacey Musgraves. I’m totally fired up about Kacey; just how much it tweaks me personally and as part of the label to bring her to the marketplace. She’s cool as hell, brings a true authenticity to the format. She’s not a smiley, eager to please kind of person, but she’s the real deal. And I think we’re finally coming with a single ["Keep It to Yourself"] that’s devoid of any offensive language, no matter your political and social leanings. No controversy, if you will, but again, very real. Besides, those who’ve found her are zealous. It’s about growing her audience. Old-school artist development. It seems like [the business culture] only appreciates big, fast and loud success. Nobody wants to wait and build. Not everything is going to blow up, but some of the stuff that lasts longest takes its time, and creates a solid foundation that endures. Like George Strait. Yeah. But aren’t radio stations begging for him to go away? There are people, gatekeepers especially, who feel like he should get out of the way to give the spot to a younger generation of superstars. There are people who’re very vocal about they want to be in the George Strait or Alan Jackson business—and really they should be thinking about what’s the best music to play, no matter who makes it. Seems like they’re kind of missing the point. After radio consolidation, we were victimized by that kind of thinking. The idea of what things were instead of "Is it good? Can it build?" People don’t listen as much as they said they did, nor do they stay on a certain station. Suddenly, radio is less and less core brand listeners, you know, the 38-year-old housewife in the minivan with three kids in back. They can’t lock down demos, but they also shouldn’t forget who’s listening in the "every man for themselves" attempt to grab listeners. Consolidation kinda makes breakouts harder, because who can take the chance? Do you see that in any way? I think it’s the same thing as Pop music: they’re mired in a couple different sounds. That’s what they do. But it’s also the thinking. I’ve had intelligent radio men say to me: Who will be this year’s woman? I came to Nashville when Patty [Loveless], Pam [Tillis], Trisha [Yearwood] and Reba [McEntire] were absolutely owning radio and making very individual kinds of music. You can argue for the better part of 10 years, women weren’t making the greatest music—at least not solo women, save for Carrie, Miranda and Taylor. Then we woke up one day, and there weren’t very many women left, and radio doesn’t care. But I don’t buy that women don’t wanna hear other women. |
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Is piracy or streaming impacting country?
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